
James Clear, author of the bestselling book Atomic Habits, joins Andrew Huberman to discuss practical, science-backed strategies for building lasting habits and breaking bad ones. The conversation covers everything from mastering the art of "getting started" to understanding how identity, environment, and social context shape our behaviors—all without relying on willpower alone.
James Clear opens by revealing what he considers the single biggest lesson from the 25 million readers of Atomic Habits: the magic of getting started. He shares an anecdote about a trainer whose class dropped from eight sign-ups to just two on a rainy day. The insight? Those who showed up only needed to push through about 5-10 minutes of discomfort while getting ready and driving to the gym—the workout itself was the same as always.
"The magic and the importance of starting... mastering that five minute window or sometimes even like that 30 second window of choosing to start and making it easy to start."
Clear explains that most habit problems boil down to two things: making it easier to get started (overcoming procrastination) and sticking with it (consistency). But even consistency is really just about starting each time.
"The heaviest weight at the gym is the front door."
He introduces the Four Laws of Behavior Change:
For example, if you want to practice guitar more, don't put it in a closet—buy a stand and place it in the middle of your living room where you'll pass it 30 times a day.
Huberman and Clear discuss the misconception that habits must be unchanging for life. Clear shares how his own writing habits have evolved dramatically over the years—from publishing two 2,000-word articles per week while building his audience, to focusing entirely on writing his book, to now sending a two-hour weekly newsletter to three million subscribers.
"Habits can have a season... and you will find that as your seasons change, your habits often need to change as well."
He emphasizes that consistency is adaptability:
"Don't have enough time, do the short version. Don't have enough energy, do the easy version. Find a way to show up and not put up a zero for that day because doing something is almost always infinitely better than doing nothing."
Clear suggests asking yourself not "What could I do on my best day?" but rather:
"What could I stick to even on the bad days?"
That becomes your baseline. On good days, you can ramp up—but your habits need to survive the tough days to truly last.
Clear tells the story of Mitch, a reader who set a rule for himself: he wasn't allowed to stay at the gym for longer than five minutes. It sounds absurd, but Mitch was mastering the art of showing up. After six weeks of consistently getting to the gym, he naturally started staying longer.
"He was becoming the type of person that went to the gym four days a week, even if it was only for five minutes."
This approach flips the typical script. Instead of perfecting a plan before taking the first step, Mitch crossed all the hurdles of getting started—choosing a gym, figuring out timing, packing clothes, etc.—and only then worried about optimizing the workout.
Huberman connects this to neuroplasticity: habits are really just the brain learning new behaviors. Every time you practice, you get better—regardless of how small the effort seems.
"Every skill that you have was once unknown to you... The way that you learn habits is also by practicing them, even if it's small."
Huberman brings up a phrase a former girlfriend once told him: "Flow, don't fight." He reflects on how he often pushed himself into work even when he enjoyed it, while she seemed to glide into her tasks effortlessly.
Clear shares his own struggle with this question:
"Do I have to be dissatisfied to be driven?"
He offers a beautiful metaphor: An acorn doesn't berate itself for not being a full oak tree yet. It simply grows because that's what it's encoded to do.
"I feel like the healthiest version of me... is what do I feel like I'm encoded to do? It's almost like I was made for this."
He introduces the concept of identity-based habits:
"Every action you take is like a vote for the type of person you wish to become."
If you work out, you're casting a vote for being an athlete. If you study, you're voting for being studious. Over time, these votes accumulate, and you cross an invisible threshold where the habit becomes part of your identity.
"If it becomes part of your story, then you'll fight to maintain the habit."
Clear emphasizes that environment often matters more than motivation. He notes that our environments are always nudging us toward certain behaviors—like gravity.
"If you introduce a little bit of friction, they will kind of curtail themselves to the desired degree."
Practical tips for reducing friction on good habits:
For breaking bad habits, invert the Four Laws:
Clear shares how he's removed social media and even email from his phone. If he needs to log in, he has to ask his assistant for the password—just enough friction to stop mindless scrolling.
"I'll pick it up and check it every 3 minutes just cuz it's there. But if it's in a different room... I never go get it."
If Clear could add one thing to Atomic Habits, it would be more on the social environment. He explains that we all belong to multiple groups—large (being American) and small (your local CrossFit gym)—and each has its own set of shared expectations.
"When your habits go against the grain of the expectations of the group, you get ostracized, you get criticized, you get judged."
Humans crave belonging. Often, the desire to fit in overpowers the desire to improve.
"A lot of the time, the desire to belong will overpower the desire to improve."
The solution? Join or create groups where your desired behavior is the normal behavior. Clear didn't have entrepreneur role models in his family, so he cold-emailed 300 people, met a few, and eventually started hosting retreats for writers and authors.
"Everybody wants the same thing... They're all waiting for somebody to get like-minded people together."
Clear discusses the power of previsualization. He shares how he helped his son have a better preschool drop-off by gently reminding him of the fun things he'd do that day—snack time, crayons, the playground.
"Emphasize the positive parts of the experience that are about to happen."
He also talks about reflection. Growing up, Clear and his dad would sit on the back deck at the end of each baseball season and replay the highlights—best games, best wins, best plays.
"I finished each season feeling good. And that gives you a little bit of momentum going into the next season."
Clear offers a powerful exercise: Write two versions of your last year—one negative, one positive—without writing anything false. Then ask yourself: Which story are you emphasizing?
"As long as you are not ignoring reality... I think you always want to tell yourself the more empowering one."
Clear reflects on how identity can both help and hinder us. Early on, it helps habits stick—you become "the type of person who works out" or "the type of person who writes." But over time, clinging too tightly to an identity can prevent growth.
"The tighter that you cling to any given identity, the harder it becomes to grow beyond it."
He gives examples: a surgeon who resists new technology, a teacher who won't use YouTube, an athlete who retires and doesn't know who they are anymore.
The key is to find through lines—traits from your past that can carry into your next chapter.
"It's just about finding the parts of the experience that you can hold on to and feel proud of and carry into your next chapter."
On credentials vs. competence, Clear is blunt:
"If the argument is, well, you don't have a degree in this—well, that doesn't really tell me anything. But if the argument is this sentence is wrong, okay, well, now we have something to talk about."
Clear believes that learning how to lose is the secret to winning. Playing baseball through college taught him what it felt like to fail publicly—and to get back up.
"The secret to winning is learning how to lose... It's learning how to bounce back from a loss and figuring out how to show up again the next time despite that."
He also advocates for approaching challenges with curiosity rather than perfectionism:
"It wasn't even about a comparison... it was, 'Oh, I think I can figure that out and it'll be interesting to figure it out.'"
This mindset keeps you from talking yourself out of trying just because you might not be the best.
Clear introduces the "Never Miss Twice" rule: If you slip up on Monday, make sure you're back on track by Thursday.
"The real insight... is that top performers make mistakes like everybody else... but they tend to get back on track quickly."
He also shares a tip from Gretchen Rubin: Split your day into four quarters (morning, afternoon, evening, night). If you lose the first quarter, you can still win the next three.
For his own routine, Clear works out around 10-11 a.m., reads before writing, and leaves his phone in another room until lunch.
"Almost every thought that you have is downstream from what you consume."
He urges listeners to be intentional about inputs:
"If you want better, more productive, more creative thoughts, then you need better, more productive, more creative inputs."
Toward the end of the conversation, Clear offers a powerful reframe:
"Habits are solutions to the recurring problems in our environment."
Coming home exhausted after work is a recurring problem. One person solves it with a run, another with video games, another with a cigarette. The question is: Are your solutions the best solutions?
"As soon as you realize that your solutions may not be the best solution, it's now your responsibility to try to figure out a different way to do it."
James Clear's approach to habits is refreshingly practical and deeply human. The core message is simple but profound: master the art of getting started, design your environment to support your goals, and remember that consistency is adaptability. Whether you're trying to write a book, get fit, or just be a little kinder, the path forward is paved with small, repeated actions that gradually reshape your identity.
"Every action you take is like a vote for the type of person you wish to become."
So, what vote will you cast today? 🗳️
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