Fermented Foods Are A Fad, SIBO, TUDCA & Gut Health - With Guy Daniels
In this podcast episode, Lucas Aoun interviews microbiome expert Guy Daniels to dismantle popular health myths, revealing why fermented foods and probiotics often worsen conditions like SIBO and histamine intolerance. Guy explains the root causes of dysbiosis, advocates for the use of TUDCA to support bile flow and liver health, and details why restrictive diets like Carnivore or Low FODMAP are only temporary fixes. The conversation culminates in a deep dive into "hero" bacteria like F. prausnitzii and how to strategically use specific prebiotics to win the war for gut health.
1. The Origins of Gut Dysfunction and Understanding Crohn's
The episode begins with Lucas introducing Guy Daniels, a "microbiome expert" who developed his passion for health after being diagnosed with Crohn's disease. Guy explains that while Crohn's is often labeled an autoimmune condition, it is fundamentally a failure of antimicrobial defenses.
When the gut is in a state of dysbiosis (imbalance), "bad actors" or pathogenic bacteria are able to invade the cells lining the gut. This isn't just about genetics; it's about the environment inside the microbiome.
"Really, your health does start in the gut... It actually starts from birth. So for example, in the United States, one-third of all deliveries now are C-section deliveries... Instead of being inoculated with the vaginal microbiome... we're being inoculated with skin bacteria and hospital room bacteria."
Guy highlights the modern assault on our gut bacteria, citing:
- C-Sections: Lack of proper bacterial inoculation.
- Antibiotics: A major risk factor. Some people have had 50+ rounds, which decimates good bacteria while bad bacteria often return stronger.
- Diet: Kids' menus filled with "garbage" like chicken fingers and fries.
- Medications: PPIs (Proton Pump Inhibitors) and stress also damage the microbiome ecosystem.
"We are just murdering our microbiome and it's this massive ecosystem inside of us that we're supposed to live in synergy with... but we're not treating it well."
2. Why Probiotics and Fermented Foods Can Be Dangerous 🦠
One of the most shocking takeaways from this discussion is Guy's stance on probiotics. He rarely, if ever, recommends them. He argues that Lactobacillus—the most common bacteria in probiotics—is often already too high in a dysbiotic, unhealthy gut.
If you have SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth), adding more bacteria to the upper GI tract is counterproductive.
"If you're dysbiotic, why would you want to add more lactobacillus to that dysbiotic microbiome? So lactobacillus goes hand-in-hand with all the pathogens... they hang out together as a group."
Similarly, Guy believes fermented foods are a fad that can cause more harm than good.
- Histamine: Fermented foods are high in histamine. Many people with gut issues have histamine intolerance.
- Lactate: They are high in D-lactate, which can cause brain fog.
- Dairy: Often fermented with dairy, which contains proteins that trigger immune reactions.
"You have this fermented food which is basically histamine in a bowl, right? And you're just throwing it in there... I've had people in my consultations who are trying to get like extra healthy... they just go fermented food crazy and they come see me like, 'I messed myself up.'"
3. The Truth About Carnivore, Low FODMAP, and Prebiotics
Lucas and Guy discuss popular diets used to manage symptoms. Guy explains that while the Low FODMAP diet reduces symptoms in the short term, it starves good bacteria in the long run because you are removing their fuel sources (onions, garlic, apples).
The Carnivore Diet faces similar criticism. While people feel better initially because they remove plant triggers, they eventually run into problems because they aren't feeding the beneficial bacteria that require plant fibers.
"The carnivore diet is eventually going to feed just bad guys... I have a lot of my people in my consultations who went carnivore and they went downhill immediately... It's not a good long-term solution."
Guy clarifies that the goal shouldn't be food avoidance, but fixing the immune system so you can tolerate plants again. To do this, we need to correct the pH of the microbiome to the "Goldilocks zone" (roughly 5.5 to 6.5). This is done using prebiotics, though the term is often misused.
4. Hidden Triggers: The Problem with Dairy 🥛
Lucas asks about common foods people think are healthy but actually aren't. Guy points directly to dairy. Contrary to popular belief, he states dairy is not great for bone health due to its acidity and protein structure, which can actually draw calcium from bones.
More importantly, the proteins in dairy are highly reactive for a dysbiotic gut.
"The dysbiotic gut is usually immuno-reactive to a whole bunch of different things... The immune system is constantly saying 'Alert, alert, invader, invader, attack, attack' because it's constantly recognizing... constant bad guy presence."
He shares a story of a patient with Ulcerative Colitis who was healing well but had a massive relapse—bloody diarrhea for three days—just from eating one salad dressing containing dairy.
5. TUDCA: The Underrated Gut Healer
Lucas brings up TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid), a bile salt that both hosts are huge fans of. Guy believes TUDCA is essential for bile flow and liver health, which are often overlooked in gut health discussions.
Benefits of TUDCA:
- Liver & Gallbladder: Helps with congestion, inflammation, and dissolving gallstones.
- Pancreas: Helps clear bad bacteria crawling up from the small intestine (SIBO).
- Gut Environment: Increases good bacteria and decreases bad ones like Klebsiella and E. coli.
- The "Ghost Wipe": Lucas mentions that TUDCA can lead to a "perfect poo" where no wiping is needed, indicating optimal digestion and bile flow.
"I think the TUDCA sales people should be fired... Everyone comes to me super dosed on zinc and vitamin D and magnesium. And I'm like, calm down... We need more Dr. Berg videos of TUDCA."
6. Mitochondrial Health and Ergothioneine 🍄
The conversation shifts to longevity and cellular health. They discuss Ergothioneine, a powerful antioxidant found in mushrooms. Unlike Vitamin C, which works briefly, compounds like Ergothioneine and Resveratrol work at a genetic level (epigenetics) to switch on master protective mechanisms.
They also touch on the importance of NAD and Sirtuins (longevity genes).
- NAD signals "starvation mode" (longevity/repair).
- NADH signals abundance (growth/storage).
- To age well, we need our mitochondria to function efficiently, not getting "flooded" with too much fuel (food).
"Mitochondria are key to healthy aging, but also is inflammation, also is the microbiome."
7. The "Hero" Bacteria: F. prausnitzii & Apple Pectin 🍎
Finally, Guy reveals the "hero" of the gut microbiome: Faecalibacterium prausnitzii (F. prausnitzii). In almost every study, this bacteria is high in healthy people and low in people with diseases (Crohn's, Parkinson's, depression).
Key characteristics of F. prausnitzii:
- Produces Butyrate: A crucial molecule for gut lining health and reducing inflammation.
- Oxygen Sensitive: It dies instantly in oxygen, which is why it cannot be made into a probiotic pill.
- How to get it: You must feed it specific fibers that it loves.
Guy recommends Apple Pectin powder over other fibers.
- Pectin: A complex molecule that ferments slowly, reaching the colon to feed the good guys.
- Inulin: Good, but can cause diarrhea in sensitive people.
- FOS/GOS: Often too short-chain, fermenting too quickly in the upper gut, which is bad for SIBO.
Guy explains that when treating patients, he uses high doses of blended prebiotics to force a change in the ecosystem. This causes gas and bloating initially (a "war" in the gut), but eventually, the good bacteria take over.
"We have to enter the battle to win the war... It's a battle for real estate. And at the moment, the bad guys are in charge... We need to go in there and tip the scales so that the good guys who have been sidelined are going, 'Hey, wait a second... There's so many prebiotics that are present that they're going to get their share.'"
Conclusion
The episode wraps up with Guy emphasizing that fixing the gut is a process of changing the environment rather than just treating symptoms or popping a probiotic pill. By focusing on bile acid metabolism (TUDCA) and feeding the "hero" bacteria (Pectin/Prebiotics), we can restore the immune system and overcome chronic issues like SIBO and autoimmunity.
"If a doctor cures a patient, the doctor has lost a customer... I'm in the customer loss business."
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